An Atheist Walks into a Church...

And now for something different...

2006-03-29T11:27:00.000-08:00

I will now be posting my comments/thoughts on a new website: www.friendlyatheist.com. Visit it. Bookmark it. And please email me at hemant@friendlyatheist.com and let me know what you think. If you have problems with the site, I need to know!

Once I figure out how to make visitor comments possible, I'll incorporate that as well. :)

Thanks to all who have commented on this blog.

Via Christus Community Church

2006-03-27T09:13:00.000-08:00

A posting on my experience at Via Christus Community Church is at Off-the-Map. Go check it out. Opinions are welcome :)

Soul for Sale

2006-03-27T00:07:00.000-08:00

Media update: I will be on the Infidel Guy radio show on Wednesday night from 8:00-9:00 EST. It's free to listen to on his site and you can call in with any questions. It should also be available to download (via Podcast) later in the week.
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An interesting thing about the publicity of this auction has been how the media has spun the original story. What began as an "Auction for Salvation" (in the Daily Southtown) has become
"Indian sells his soul on eBay for $504" (DNA India). In fact, nearly every interview asks about this aspect of the auction:

Interviewer: Why did you sell your soul?

Me: I actually didn't sell my soul. I sold my time and willingness to go to church.

Interviewer: Uh-huh, I see... Jim, how do you feel now that you bought Hemant's soul?

And it goes on like that. In fact, in the FoxNews interview, the graphic at the bottom of the screen says three different things:

"Hemant Mehta. Sold his soul on eBay"

"Man sells his soul on eBay website"

"Jim Henderson. Bought Hemant's soul on eBay"

Lovely. Atheists don't even believe in the concept of a soul! Doesn't anyone question why I would be selling a soul that I don't think exists? *sigh* Oh well.

Numerology

2006-03-24T22:45:00.000-08:00

From a comment made by Siamang (edited down by me):

It's one of the hobby-horses of apocolyptic christians. They always say 6 is the number of man, 7 is the number of God, 666 is the number of the Beast.
It means absolutely nothing... If their gas-station receipt says $7.77, they take it as a sign. If they see a 6 on a license plate with the number and some other numbers that remind them of a bible verse, they take it as a sign....They add numbers up, divide them, multiply them and reduce them using the mind-numbingly vacant superstition of numerology. Surprise, it always confirms the beliefs of the numerologist, because they keep multiplying and dividing until they get something that reminds them of what they already believed.

Do others see this happening often or is it something that only a small minority of people do? What are examples of this?

How often do we take coincidences and try to draw a hidden meaning from them?

Media Mention (in France!)

2006-03-24T21:41:00.000-08:00

Thanks to Arno for the heads-up. The story is in the Courrier International! In French.

Click here to read the story.

Apparently, in French, my name is Herman. I did not know this.

AND! Apparently, we've inspired a T-shirt! (Thanks to Eliza for pointing this out.)

Intercessory Prayer

2006-03-22T21:17:00.000-08:00

I've mentioned this before on the blog, but it's worth going more in depth about it.

Religious people would love to find a link between Science and Religion. One possible way to find the link is by proving that Intercessory Prayer (IP) helps people. IP is the belief that strangers could pray for a particular patient without his/her knowing, and the patient would benefit from this. If we could show the connection, we'd be proving that there is a supernatural force out there.

There have been attempts to confirm this link. In 1988, Dr. Randolph Byrd in San Francisco wrote a seminal research paper on this topic. Researchers Irwin and Jack Tessman wrote a scathing response of Byrd's methodologies in the magazine Skeptical Inquirer. That article is found here.

Subsequent studies have also been credibly refuted.

We still don't have the link that proves that prayer works.

Would anyone like to claim otherwise?

The Moody Church

2006-03-22T21:16:00.000-08:00

A posting on my experience at The Moody Church is at Off-the-Map. Go check it out. Opinions are welcome :)

Media Mention

2006-03-20T21:36:00.000-08:00

The Village Voice (in New York) printed this today. Interesting take on the whole thing...

http://www.villagevoice.com/screens/0612,dibbell,72576,28.html

Actually, I do enjoy the idea of being a chapter in a marketing textbook... or anything business-related. Especially when I owe $267,234,817,124,324 in student loans.

Can anyone tell me why the caption says "Clean-up on aisle six"? Is that tragic foreshadowing?

And for the record, I am not in a wheelchair. Though, I had to do a double take on that one...

What do you think about all this?

2006-03-20T21:20:00.000-08:00

See the side bar on the right? It has a link the Institute for Humanist Studies. They produce the Humanist Network News (HNN) podcast and they would like to hear what you think about the auction and the church blogging I have done for Off-the-Map.

Please call the HNN listener comment line at (206) 339-4168 to leave your thoughts.

While you can comment on anything relating to this project, HNN is very interested in hearing your thoughts on the following questions:

-- Is this experiment helping to bridge the gap between Atheists and Christians?

-- Is Hemant helping improve the public image of atheists?

-- Do you think Hemant will become a Christian?

-- Is Hemant helping you realize that you might be an Atheist?

-- Do you like Off-the-Map's approach to "helping Christians be normal?"

The HNN listener comment line is a voicemail box. After a recorded greeting, you leave your comments (much like an answering machine). The show's editor will select a variety of comments to include in the next podcast at the end ofthe month. To listen to previous HNN podcasts, visit http://ihs.libsyn.com/.

Can Atheists convert people to Christianity?

2006-03-19T16:05:00.000-08:00

"Ron" on the www.off-the-map.org blog wrote:

Is it possible for Atheists to convert someone into Christianity? They say that the single greatest cause of atheism today are Christians who profess Christ with their lips and turn Him away with their lifestyle. So if Christians can turn people to atheism, is the reverse possible?

Allow me to rephrase Ron's question. Many Atheists I know say they became non-believers because they were turned off by many Christians they knew. One reason could be that they sensed hypocrisy in some believers.

Does the same principle work the other way? Can Atheists make someone Christian? (I know many Christians believe that NOT believing in God doesn't make sense and that is why they are believers. That's not what we're talking about. We're referring to people who became Christians due to Atheists they knew.)

India Media Mention

2006-03-18T18:52:00.000-08:00

Daily News & Analysis in Mumbai, India featured the story on their front page last week! (Yes, it's a week old... but they're really far away...)

Right, I know you can't really see it. But I'm over there on the *far* left side.
<------

Really.

Internet and Religion

2006-03-17T14:36:00.000-08:00

I think the blog is working. Blogspot doesn't like me today.
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"David S." writes:

Is the internet more 'helpful' to Christianity, atheism, both or neither?

Like David, the Internet definitely helped me when I became an Atheist. I remember when I was 14, sitting in my room at night and finding sites that discussed Atheism. I subscribed to online newsletters written by Atheists. I even was able to talk via Instant Messenger to other Atheists. It would've been *really* hard to learn more about Atheism if I didn't have my dial-up connection.

I don't think the Internet made me an Atheist-- I became one first, and used the Internet to reinforce my thoughts-- but it certainly helped me solidify my non-belief.

Has the Internet actually changed any of your beliefs?

Has the Internet helped you become religious?

Share your stories!

Atheist Bashing

2006-03-16T14:19:00.000-08:00

The edited version of this morning's Mancow interview:

Mancow: Hemant, you were selling your soul?

Me: Well, I was actually selling the chance to "save my soul" by going to church.

Mancow: Are you still an Atheist?

Me: Yes.

Mancow: Have fun in Hell. Up next...

My phone: *click*

Strangely, that was the first time anyone had mentioned that I'm going to hell during this whole process...

Which brings up the idea of hate mail. I've received very little of it. Which is great. And surprising. And perhaps mentioning it here will start a whole barrage of them... but still, most response has been positive. For now...

An excerpt from an email:

I honestly don't think your qualified to speak to others about atheism after the way Kirk sacrificed you to his blood thirsty god.

If you want to send hate mail, please learn some grammar.

My favorite has probably been this poll on LiveJournal. The question: is the ebay atheist a fraud (a christian posing as an atheist in order to bring publicity to the notion that atheists can be converted)?

And the winner is "Hell, yes!" by a landslide.

Because as an in-the-closet Christian, I enjoy going around proclaiming my Atheism. It makes people love me so much more...

*sigh*

I do appreciate the emails, though. Thanks for writing whether it's with positive comments or constructive criticism.
--------------------

And here's a fun plug: A person with a free online secular newsletter. For every 50 signups, he'll read another Bible verse. The website is here.

Harassment?

2006-03-15T10:53:00.000-08:00

"Pam" made a point a while back:

Do you ever get harassed Hemant when you reveal your atheism?
I have good friends who are practicing occultists, commited to paganism and witchcraft. They use a lot of discretion about their beliefs. In fact, they pretty much hide out in the "broom closet" as they call it. And for them it is a real possibility that they could lose their jobs if their spiritual beliefs were public.

I can say I've had it much easier than many Atheists I know. I haven't been beaten up. Or kicked out of my house. Or anything of that nature. Others have lost many family and friends over their beliefs-- and I'm sure that also applies to religious people who believe something different than their circle of friends as well.

That said, I never write down on job applications or any resume that I work closely with the Secular Student Alliance and the Secular Coalition for America... or that I won an award from American Atheists... or that I founded an Atheist student group at my college... or pretty much anything I'm passionate about. I can't make it public. I would think any of the media that is going on with this auction will have to be kept discreet if I ever want a teaching job.

And this doesn't even go into the idea that Atheists are excluded from Boy Scouts and Little League Baseball (Both require pledges to god).

I don't think someone who says, "I volunteer at my church" has the same problems. In fact, they're probably received even better for saying it.

Do other Atheists also have to hide their lack of belief?

Do religious people face discrimination at a similar level?

Bible Usage

2006-03-14T20:56:00.000-08:00

A couple things:

1) We will be on Mancow's Morning Madhouse on Thursday morning around 8:30 a.m. CST. Check the website for your local Mancow-airing station!
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2) To paraphrase (and possibly butcher) a previous posting by "TXatheist,"

Atheists often say they don't believe in the validity of the Bible-- It's man-made and it has a lot of contradictions. And yet when we want to show how cruel religion can be or that the Bible can justify anything we want it to justify, we quote right from it.

How can we quote from something we don't believe is valid?

Media update (Monday night)

2006-03-13T11:23:00.000-08:00

I'll be on the Alan Colmes radio show tonight at around 11:00 EST. (That's Alan Colmes, the non-Hannity part of Hannity & Colmes). You can go to his website, http://www.alancolmesradio.com/, to find out which local radio station is airing it. You can also listen LIVE at the website.

UPDATE:

TONIGHT, in addition to Colmes, we will also be on a couple shows with Newsradio 710 KIRO in Seattle. First, The Dave Ross Show tonight at 8:00 EST and then The Ron and Don Show at midnight, EST. You can listen LIVE by going to their websites.

Front Page in Seattle

2006-03-13T09:56:00.000-08:00

Front Page of today's Seattle Times.

<----- We're over there on the left.

Very cool. And if you didn't get a chance to watch FoxNews Saturday night, please click here to see the segment, via Off-the-Map.

Media update (Saturday night)

2006-03-11T14:11:00.000-08:00

The Rick and Craig show, WLS 890 AM in Chicago, tonight at around 7:00 CST.

Listen Live.

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The Big Story Primetime, FoxNews Channel, tonight at around 9:00 CST.

Front Page in Chicago

2006-03-10T21:27:00.000-08:00

This was the front page of today's Chicago Sun-Times.

<---- That's me in church.

Chicago is very good to me.

Atheist Jokes.

2006-03-10T21:07:00.000-08:00

You know you love them...

Here's an example of one:

Did you know Atheists have a holiday? It's on April 1st!

That's an example of one that's not funny. And I say that, not because I'm an Atheist, but because I have a sense of humor.

Let's hear some good ones. Make us laugh!

(Please refrain from repeating jokes... and please stay on topic. That means no jokes about Helen Keller/dead babies/etc.)

By the way... that April Fools joke. Why do religious people say it? You'd never hear them say a joke with a punchline "And that's why the Jews have all the money! HAHAHAHA" because that would be offensive and wrong. But it's always ok to rip on Atheists...

This is worth a separate post...

2006-03-10T18:17:00.000-08:00

"Infinate Questions" says:

this is a friend of mine:

For the past six months i was hanging out with a bad crowd, wiccan to be specific and I was bisexual. Then i attended the rock of ages concert and i dont know, it just clicked.

God has so much in store for us, and I am only 17 so I cant say ive had much experience or have it all figured out..but i have a strong wall of friend to lean on whenever i am in need of scripture or prayers. Im not sure if this is on topic or not, but i believe everyone has a lack of that certain something in their life, A hole in your spiritual heart! And people try and fill it with things like science and relationships, but the only one who can truly heal the hole/ fill it is god.

To which "MystryBox" responded:

That's what it's all about. We've got a hole in us that only god can fill. We're like jelly donuts and god is the jelly. Atheists are like regular donuts because they still have a hole and are missing the best part of being a donut. And even if you like regular donuts being an atheist donut isn't good because jelly filled is the best when it comes to god. And donut holes are like the missing soul of the atheists. And where are all those atheist donut holes anyway? ...Hemant sold his on ebay. Hemant, take back your donut hole and let yourself be filled up with the jelly of god! Unless you like custard filled donuts better, then god is like custard. But anyway he's like in you man, and that's what matters. Can I get an Amen!

Now I'm hungry for a donut.

Please continue the donut dialogue. Clearly, this is what Theological Discussion is all about.

Finding God

2006-03-10T08:29:00.000-08:00

It's been said in many of the articles that I haven't found God yet. Which is true. I'm not sure that I will... but I'm still going to church with an open mind and trying to see if there's anything that will clue me in to why God would exist.

What might that be? I'm not sure. What would it take fomr an Atheist to believe in god? My only answer to that has been that I need to see something I can't explain logically-- or that I won't ever be able to explain. (e.g. I can't explain AIDS to you, but I believe science will be able to do this one day)

What would it take for others of you out there? Has anyone ever gone from being an Atheist to being religious? What was it that did it for you?

Media update

2006-03-09T17:28:00.000-08:00

The day's been crazy... but in a good way. I'll try to update this posting as we go through the weekend, but here is a news segment from Chicago's CBS affiliate-- it aired on the 6:00 pm broadcast:

http://cbs2chicago.com/topstories/local_story_068184556.html

More to come, I hope!

Welcoming and Witnessing

2006-03-09T00:15:00.000-08:00

To those who are here as a result of the Wall Street Journal article, welcome! Let me give you the grand tour. The sidebar (to your right) has links to media mentions, websites that have played a role in our discussions here, and a place for donations to the Secular Student Alliance. The posts below contain discussions by people with many different viewpoints. If you wish to tell me I'm going to hell, please refrain from ruining our blogs and just let me know in private by emailing me. Archives of our discussions can also be found using the link on the right.

I told my mom about the WSJ article. She was thrilled:

Me: Mom, there's an article about the auction on the front page of the Wall Street Journal!

Mom: Go back to med school.

*Sigh* That's ok.

Back to the regularly scheduled blog.
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People have been mentioning how the Way of the Master method of "witnessing" is a turn-off-- for both Atheists and Christians. I was listening to comedian Jim Gaffigan and he was saying how, even if you are Christian, if someone comes up to you and says, "I'd like to talk to you about Jesus," your response will be, "I'd like you not to..." Has anyone done this successfully? For those who have done it well, what worked? Because the WotM method doesn't seem to have an effect on the people they talk to...

I'm also curious what a witnessing Atheist would sound like. Can Atheists actually proselytize? Does anyone think that's what some of us are doing in these blogs?

I think there's a clear distinction between making your point in these religious discussions and trying to convert people over to your side. I'd like to think we've kept most of it to the former instead of the latter.

Gaytheists

2006-03-07T21:31:00.000-08:00

While we're on the subject on the Off-the-Map blog, I want to highlight that, yes, gay people certainly do have it hard in society, but there are advances being made constantly. I think we all know how divisive the issue is and how religion can often be used negatively against gay people.

However, I do believe that being gay is easier than being an Atheist in society. Let me add that "easier" does NOT mean it is easy at all. But being gay is more accepted than Atheism is.

Incidentally, I went to a forum on religion and politics held by the Interfaith Alliance (www.interfaithalliance.org) before the 2004 elections. One of the panelists was Patrick Guerriero, the Executive Director of the Log Cabin Republicans, and a former mayor, state representative, and candidate for Lieutenant Governor from Massachusetts. I had the chance to ask him if he felt a non-religious person could *ever* win an election for a "high-up" public office.

He responded:

"I have run as an openly gay person. That was difficult. I have run as a Republican in Massachusetts. That is remarkably difficult... I am a Red Sox fan, so I have a whole set of issues... And I am a Catholic from the Archdiocese of Boston. So you can tell that I have more issues than anybody in the room combined... But I would argue that being an atheist in that context to me would be the greatest political challenge of any of those that I mentioned."

So even this gay person would not want to run for office as an Atheist.

Do others agree that being gay is easier than being an Atheist? Am I way off base on this?

Atheist funerals

2006-03-06T22:02:00.000-08:00

Bob writes:
---
On Friday, I attended the funeral of one of my neighbors. It was a Christian funeral that went way beyond a eulogy. The pastor really put an evangelistic push and asked people to follow as he prayed a "sinner's prayer". (That's a prayer where you confess a need for Jesus and ask Him to be your personal Lord and Savior.)

It got me thinking about funerals. I don't think I've ever been to a non-religious funeral. There's always some mention of God or heaven or something "beyond". What do atheists think of this? What are atheist funerals like? Are they just a tribute to the one who has died? How do atheists deal with the loss of a loved one? Is it just a natural part of life that is viewed objectively?
---

To answer him, I've always felt an Atheist funeral should be a celebration of life rather than words about where the body is now going. However, I've only been to one funeral and it was religious in nature. How do Atheists deal with death? I can tell you how I think I'd deal with it, but I don't think I can accurately respond to the question until that happens. Comments by those who have been through it would be appreciated.

On a side note, if you do die, your organs should be donated if they are usable (if you're an Atheist, it's selfish to not do it), and you should also donate your body to science. Medical students needs you. So does the Body Worlds exhibit.

Are there Atheists who don't feel this way?

Religious folk, what are your thoughts on donating your body versus being buried?

Agnostic vs. Ignorant

2006-03-05T22:20:00.000-08:00

A reader wrote in and wanted to make a statement:

She says the (religious) world is broken down into two types: The Agnostics and The Ignorant.

By this, she means "all but the ignorant have to allow that there is at least the slightest chance that their assumptions are incorrect, which makes the person not an atheist or a theist, but an agnostic." She adds that those who are not in this group, those who blindly follow, are ignorant.

Your thoughts?

Personally, I would still call myself an Atheist. I do allow the chance that I might be wrong, though. Why am I not an Agnotic then? It's not that I don't know the answer or don't think it's possible to know. Of course it's possible to know the answer. The answer is no until proven otherwise.

Salem Baptist Church

2006-03-05T22:18:00.000-08:00

A posting on my experience at Salem Baptist Church is at Off-the-Map. Go check it out. Opinions are welcome :)

Pseudoscience

2006-03-03T10:39:00.000-08:00

This is probably more for the Atheists, but all are welcome to respond.

Most non-believers reject all forms of the supernatural. God, sure, but also superstitions, prayer, horoscopes, psychics, etc.

I'd like to think I'm never influenced by these things. And I laugh (quietly, inside my head) when people I know get a tarot card reading or believe what a fortune in a fortune cookie says.

That said, when I read the Onion-- a satirical newspaper-- I will get to the page with the fake horoscopes... and immediately look for Pisces. I once had a pair of lucky boxers (Which I learned had no useful powers). Why do I do this?!

Do any other non-believers do this? Do you follow some form of pseudoscience, whether intentionally or unintentionally?

Humanist Network News

2006-02-28T14:18:00.000-08:00

An interview I did with the Institute for Humanist Studies is currently available on the Humanist Network News podcast. To download the interview (And to subscribe to the HNN podcast), please go here:

http://www.humaniststudies.org/enews/index.html?id=231&lid=2220#n1.

The part about the auction begins at the 36:00 mark, although the rest of the program is certainly worth listening to.

The Root of all Evil?

2006-02-27T21:42:00.000-08:00

Richard Dawkins hosted a TV show recently called The Root of all Evil? on Channel 4 in Britain. He was talking about religion (Surprise!). Dawkins has stated in interviews that the title wasn't his idea (he says no one thing can be the root of all anything). But the program does talk about how Dawkins thinks extreme religiosity is not a good thing. For those who haven't seen it, this website had links to the programs. So, if you'd like to watch the two episodes, they can be downloaded here:

Episode 1

Episode 2

(Just right-click and click on "Save Target As")

Parkview Christian Church

2006-02-26T20:55:00.000-08:00

A posting on my experience at Parkview Christian Church is at Off-the-Map. Go check it out. Opinions are welcome :)

Therapeutic Cloning

2006-02-25T19:38:00.000-08:00

TXatheist stated:

"I am curious from both sides if you are against therapeutic cloning. Not where we make another human(reproductive) but if we take a healthy cell and reconstruct a failing organ or liver or lung for some person. I don't understand how we can not help if we are that close to the cure."

What say you?

Why do people do this...?

2006-02-25T19:01:00.000-08:00

There is a hilarious article in Scientific American by Michael Shermer this month ripping on the book Natural Cures "They" Don't Want You to Know About by Kevin Trudeau. It basically reveals how his "cures" don't do anything.

Dr. Stephen Barrett also reveals the truth about false cures on his website, Quackwatch (A great site, for those who have a chance to look at it).

A year ago, there was a lecture on Ayurveda at my school... the lecturer suggested that someone who is dying of cancer should be eating particular herbal extracts. To my disbelief, no one in the room questioned her on this. I did. She backtracked and admitted they should see a doctor first.

I have also been asked: "If you were a doctor, would you tell your patients to pray to get better?" Honestly, if I knew the patient was religious, sure I would-- I know it would calm them down and their body would relax. It does help, in this sense, to pray if you are a believer. At the same time, I've seen or heard of many churches that ask for prayer requests for their sick loved ones. This intercessory prayer-- praying for someone who doesn't know they are receiving it-- does nothing for them. At least, it has never accurately been shown to help.

Modern medicine can't cure everything yet... and I can imagine the frustration and despair for those who suffer diseases that have no cure-- I understand why people in this position may resort to alternative medicine. But there are people who use it in lieu of real medicine. Who are these people...?

Has anyone reading this ever used alternative medicine... and had it work? Why do you take it? Can anyone make claims for its legitimacy?

As I wrote on an Off-the-Map posting, I am interested in going to a Faith-Healing service at some point because I want to witness people who think the service will actually fix any health problems they have. These questions I'm posing just seemed like a natural variant on that.

Math History

2006-02-23T21:48:00.000-08:00

I take this Math History class. And we were talking about Archimedes. To spare everyone excess details, here's what caught my attention:

Calculus was "discovered" a couple centuries ago, as we are taught, by Newton and Leibniz. But Archimedes had started to write about the topic around 250 B.C.E. So why the *$&#% did we have to wait nearly 2,000 years to find out about it? I mean, we could've had a two millennia head start on modern history had we known what Archimedes knew...

Reason # 1: Many of his works were lost when the Library of Alexandria was burned down because it was a "Pagan" temple. However, some of the works were retained via translations. FYI, this is approximately when the "Dark Ages" began.

Reason # 2: The sole copy that was left of Archimedes' work dealing with "infinitesimals" (the predecessor to Calculus) was found in the 12th century. It was taken apart and washed over (erased)... wiping out all this amazing math. Why? Because some Christian monks needed paper to write some prayers down.

(More information on this "cleansing" process is here.)

At least current technology can see through the prayers to the important writing below it, and we can assess what Archimedes wrote. But still... what if we knew all this thousands of years ago?

I can't even fathom how many examples there are of religion hindering Mathematical and Scientific advancement... stopping stem cell research, killing those who first said the Earth goes around the Sun, the Big Bang Theory...

Do Christians who believe in the ideas mentioned (like Evolution) ever consider the problems that religion causes? (I am aware that religion does a lot of good, too, but for the sake of this argument, let's save that for another day.) Or are these battles all relics of the past? How do you reconcile what the Church used to do with what it does now? Does it need to be reconciled?

Evolution vs. Intelligent Design, Part 17892314

2006-02-22T13:39:00.000-08:00

At the risk of broadening the scope of this blog even more, it seems ID/Evolution should have it's own separate posting. The merits of both (Haha. I just implied both have merits... I'm funny) can be hashed out in the comment section.

But to start the discussion, a recent NY Times article (found here) talks about a petition circulated by the Discovery Institute-- a petition signed by 514 pro-ID people-- that supposedly attests to the debate going on in the scientific community regarding doubts about Evolution.

But, says the Times, "... even the petition's sponsor, the Discovery Institute in Seattle, says that only a quarter of the signers are biologists, whose field is most directly concerned with evolution."

And many of the signers, the article goes on to say, are those who *happen* to be Evangelical Christians.

Meanwhile, the National Center for Science Education has a Pro-Evolution petition that is signed by 700 scientists named Steve.

Oh, Eugenie Scott, how I love you.

Park Community Church

2006-02-20T07:27:00.000-08:00

A posting on my experience at Park Community Church is at Off-the-Map/. Go check it out. Opinions are welcome :)

Follow-up

2006-02-18T16:03:00.000-08:00

Hopefully, I'll be going to church tomorrow morning. Details to come soon.

But a follow-up to the previous posting. A comment was made:

"...most of the Atheists I know came from Christian homes and I know a few Christians that came from Atheist homes. Why do you think this is?"

I have an opinion on this, but my guess is it's pretty one-sided. What do you think? Please discuss.

Kids.

2006-02-17T16:07:00.000-08:00

How many Atheists have kids who ended up religious? Or how many Atheists raised their kids with religion due to their significant other? Was this a good thing?

Some cases of note:

Madalyn Murray O'Hair's son (whom she sued on behalf of, to get mandatory Bible readings out of public schools) became a "born-again" Christian in 1980 and became a preacher.

Writer Erica Jong is Jewish but her parents were Atheists.

George Ellis, theoretical cosmologist and winner of the 2004 Templeton Prize was also born to Atheists.

I was raised with religion and even though I became an Atheist, I am glad I was raised the way I was. I do think Atheists can raise kids just as well.

Thoughts?

Atheists, respond!

2006-02-16T10:09:00.000-08:00

Quick! What's the first word that comes to your mind when you think of "Christian"?

(Comments should be limited to one word answers, please. Christians, please read the posting below.)

Christians, respond!

2006-02-16T10:06:00.000-08:00

Quick! What's the first word that comes to your mind when you think of "Atheist"?

(Comments should be limited to one word answers, please. Atheists, please read the above posting.)

What would you like to discuss?

2006-02-15T10:56:00.000-08:00

There are a lot of topics that are often discussed at once in these forums (and others). To try and keep it organized and contained, if there's a burning issue you'd love to hear peoples' thoughts on, please email me personally at hemant@secularstudents.org. I'll keep a list and we'll talk about these things as they should be discussed-- on an individual basis. Thanks :)

Churchgoers

2006-02-15T09:16:00.000-08:00

I received an email from a woman who said she sings in churches all the time-- classical music, sacred music, etc. But she's an Atheist. A church can be a great venue for singers, though, and one can experience great music there.

One thing I've noticed at services I've attended-- even church weddings I've been to-- is that a lot of people (to me) just seem to be going through the motions. I'm not sure if they understand what they're doing. I'm sure there are also people who are there because they simply feel they have to be. Maybe because their significant other wanted them to. Maybe because they feel that's the best way to model behavior for their children. But it's not voluntary.

Of course, many of the people want to be there, and they are there for the right reasons. And this is the majority. But there must be people in the minority.

I mean, for years after I became an Atheist, I'd go to my own temple because I had to. It was social, I could see my friends... and my parents said I had to go. Now that I can see my "religious" friends outside of the temple, religion doesn't play a role when we meet. Even when we were younger, we'd call each other to find out if the other was going-- it'd make temple-going easier to bear. We wouldn't simply go for the religious aspect of it.

So, how many other people went to church (or go to church now) for the "wrong" reasons? I would think both religious and non-religious people would be included here... or maybe I'm wrong.

Lee Strobel

2006-02-11T21:53:00.000-08:00

I've received approximately 89213712 emails in the past couple weeks from people asking me if I've read Lee Strobel's books The Case for Faith and The Case for Christ. Because if I had read those books, surely I would've changed my mind about Atheism! (To answer the question, I have read the former, but not yet the latter, which I'll read soon enough.)

I like Strobel. He writes a good story. And the books' intentions are certainly important ones: If we want to "make a case" for faith or Christ, we must investigate them thoroughly. But let's walk through his process of writing...

Strobel: How can we believe this?!

Interviewee: Because.

Strobel: OH! Incredible.

Skeptic (in the distance): Wait! I have a rebuttal!

Strobel: I hear something.

Interviewee: It was God performing a miracle.

Strobel: Case closed!

Ok, I exaggerate. Strobel can get satisfying answers to the questions he poses; however, those answers are not the ends of the arguments. Below, we can find responses to many of the questions that Strobel seems to think are solved-- But cannot be solved without further investigation.

From the Internet Infidels website:

Rebuttal to The Case for Faith: Paul Doland's reply.
Rebuttal to The Case for Christ: Jefferey Jay Lowder's reply.

Willow Creek Community (Mega)Church

2006-02-09T12:48:00.000-08:00

Thanks to everyone who helped me with the RSS Feed. The feed is located to your right. If there's anyone who might be able to help me navigate through some of the html-related questions I have about this page, I'd appreciate it. Please email me (contact information is on the sidebar) if you can help.

A posting on my experience at Willow Creek is at Off-the-Map. Go check it out.

Atheistical Dating

2006-02-09T10:18:00.000-08:00

My girlfriend is Catholic. Things are well.

And while Atheists dating Atheists might make things easier... I've talked to many students who say it's hard to meet others who think that way. From my experience, the ratio of males to females at any gathering of non-believers is about 192731892312 to 1. And that girl tends to feel *very* scared.

Am I wrong?

Have any Athiests dated religious people? How'd it go?
Have any religious people dated Atheists? How'd it go?
Do two dating Atheists ever have unexpected problems?

Proof

2006-02-09T09:50:00.000-08:00

EarlyChurchFathers said to the Atheists: "It is your duty to look into the face of a child and prove that their is no God."

No. The burden of proof rests on the person making the claim.

In a court of law, we don't say someone is "Guilty" or "Innocent." We say "Guilty" or "Not guilty." If the proof that the person did something bad is there, he/she is guilty. If there's not enough proof, then "not guilty."

Similarly, the whole notion of proving that something doesn't exist is absurb. There are billions of things that we cannot prove don't exist (did you follow that?). At a summer camp for children of Atheists, Camp Quest, they offer the children $100 if they can prove invisible unicorns do not exist. No one has ever claimed the money. And no one will ever claim the money. More famously, the whole fact that we can't prove what doesn't exist was used by Bobby Henderson when he created the Flying Spaghetti Monster.

You people with the comments...

2006-02-09T09:14:00.000-08:00

Hi. I like the comments and the discussion. But to make things easier...

1) If you're posting to ask someone a question, or responding to somone else, please indicate this at the beginning (e.g. "Response to Hemant: You're going to hell.")

2) If you'd like to veer the conversation into something entirely different (i.e. Marriage, Duking out the Bible, etc.), let me know, I'll create a new post (do you have a better idea?), and we can do that.

That said, I did go to Willow Creek last night. More on that later.

And people, stop being crazy. Catholics are not cannibals. Atheists don't need selfish motives to lose faith. And clearly, Scientology is the one true faith.

Ok... I'm adding a couple different posts.

-- Hemant

The first church visit...

2006-02-08T10:00:00.000-08:00

Hi all. I made my first church visit. I wrote about it on the Off-the-map blog here:
http://off-the-map.org/atheist/category/hemants-blog-entries/

Tonight, I go to Willow Creek Community Church, the megachurch outside Chicago. Good times.

I'd love to hear comments. Also, if you know how to do a syndicated feed (RSS feed?), I'd appreciate the help. Thanks!

Who won? Where are you going?...

2006-02-05T14:42:00.000-08:00

Thanks to you, if you're still reading this blog post-auction :) Jim Henderson of www.Off-the-map.org won the auction with his $504.00 bid. He is a Christian, and he would like me to go to a variety of different churches in and around Chicago. This is for a number of different reasons, the main one being that he would like me to fill out surveys for him about my observations on the different churches for his website. That information can be used to help Christians get a better understanding of what non-Christians think about their church and the way they show their faith.

More information can be found on his website as well. I will also be blogging on his site (Links will always be provided on this one as well.

If you still have questions you'd like to ask an Atheist, go for it. I'll do my best to answer everyone. If you'd rather not ask on this blog, you may reach me at Hemant@secularstudents.org.

To clear up some confusion...

2006-02-02T12:30:00.000-08:00

Some things I've read that I'd like to comment on (I'll add on as more questions come in):

-- Is this a fundraiser for the Secular Student Alliance?

No. This is not a fundraiser for the SSA. The original plan was to get $10 and go to church and maybe see a movie at some point. But if people want to bid this much to get me to go to church, I can't in all good conscience keep it for myself. I'd like it to go to an organization that does good work and doesn't have an infinite supply of funding. The SSA fits that.

-- Can Atheists bid for you NOT to go to church?

If someone wins and says to not go to church, I won't go. But if someone wins and asks me to go to church, an Atheist cannot counter the offer and tell me not to go. One interesting idea I read about was how I should have both "sides" bid and when the all the bids were in, we'll see who comes out on top, and by how much, and that's how much I should go to (or not go to) church. Which I admit would've been interesting. But I didn't think of that a week ago. Atheists (and anyone) are still welcome to donate to the SSA, though. Use the PayPal link on the right side.

-- Can a wealthy, religious person send you to church for long periods of time?

Umm.. I don't know about this... But the auction is still up. So anyone can bid as much as they want and I will honor what I said.

-- Are you pulling a scam on us?

No. I will do what I say. I really didn't think anyone would bid at all, though. I really need to think my ideas through next time...

-- Are you seeking your 15 minutes of fame?

No. If I were, I would've auctioned a grilled cheese sandwich. This has all happened pretty unexpectedly.

-- Do you get a cut of the profits?

No. (But my birthday is this month... and I don't have an iPod...)

-- Are you going to be writing about how gullible people who bid on you can be?

No. I'm sincere about what I'm doing. I'll write about my experiences and questions I have and what changed and what didn't, etc. I think it's great that any of the bidders are willing to take a chance on me.

-- Why not just go to a church on your own if you're so curious?

Because I already have considered other religions and they don't work for me-- that's why I'm an Atheist. I've never been to a real church service, but I don't think I need to. If bidders think otherwise, that'd be motivation for me to give it a shot, take the opportunity, and see what happens.

-- Before you were an Atheist, were you a Christian?

No, I was raised a Jain. I still follow many Jain practices (I'm a vegetarian, for example) but not the religious part of it.

Media update

2006-02-01T14:14:00.000-08:00

I will be on the Way of the Master radio show (with Kirk Cameron! Woo!) on Friday, 3:00 central time. Their website: https://www.wayofthemaster.com/radio/home.shtml. Go listen.

Welcome

2006-01-31T12:22:00.000-08:00

To those reading this, the proceeds from the auction will be going to the Secular Student Alliance, a non-profit group that supports high school/college secular groups across the nation.

Their website is here: http://www.secularstudents.org. Go check them out. And please donate by going to http://www.secularstudents.org/support/ or using the PayPal link on the bottom right side of this page-- any amount is well appreciated!

Auction still running

2006-01-31T11:55:00.000-08:00

The auction is here: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=5660982226

Currently, it is at $187.50 with 3 days, 8 hours left.

Media Postings:

The Dawn Patrol: http://www.dawneden.com/2006/01/doing-gods-bidding.html
Myopic Zeal: http://myopiczeal.blogsome.com/2006/01/28/enterprising-atheist/
The Daily Southtown: http://www.dailysouthtown.com/southtown/dsindex/31-ds2.htm
The Raving Atheist: http://ravingatheist.com/archives/2006/02/soul_for_sale.php